I saw a facebook group today and it reminded me how much I can’t stand the military and the mindless support it receives. The group was titled “Facebook Silence.... Pay Your Respects To Our Fallen and Injured” and, of course, it was filled with people talking about how important it is to show them we care, as if soldiers getting shot at give a fuck about facebook silence. I’m sick of the empty gestures that all these pro-military people make constantly. You aren’t doing anything but trying to make yourself feel good that these people are off dying for no reason. There was a silver lining to the group though, and it was that more people had selected not attending. Absolutely priceless. And the people supporting the group are giving the people choosing not attending shit, like it is a big deal.
More than these people, I’m sick of the military and the attitude that most people seem to have about it. If you don’t support the troops, get the fuck out. Even reasonable, sensible people seem to have this mindset. I don’t understand it. You can’t oppose the war and support the troops. The troops are what make war possible. They make a choice to sign up for the military and they understand the implications of doing so. We’ve been at war for nearly a decade now, anyone signing up knows they are going to fight in Iraq or Afghanistan. They know they are supporting a pointless war, a war that has led to countless civilian deaths in both Iraq and Afghanistan. They know that they are in an illegal war in Iraq, a war that Congress never declared and therefore, should not exist.
Soldiers are the cement of the American war machine. Until Americans can realize that war is unnecessary, that a standing military is the greatest threat to our freedom, and that we will never know peace until we say no to constant war, there is no hope for us.
For those who tell me to get out of the country if I don’t support the military, you’re a moron. Do you not understand that the military, in it’s present state, is not “American.” Our founders were terrified of a standing military and anxious about meddling in foreign affairs. The United States was a neutral, isolationist nation until the first World War! And even after that, we attempted to continue being an isolationist nation. The militaristic system we live in now has only existed for a little over sixty years. It is NOT necessary to survive, we did so for 150 years. Standing militaries are not necessary, even in today’s time. Our armies will not stop some rogue nuclear missile, our defense systems will. We live isolated from all of our significant enemies, with giant oceans on both sides of our nation.
We spend 6 or 7 times more money on our military a year than the second largest military spender in the world. How can I say this and people not see the problem in this? Do you realize a fraction of the money we spend on the military could provide healthcare to all Americans? A fraction! You complain so much about our budget, big government. The military is big government. Military leaders have created a bubble protecting them from ever losing anything. What congressmen would dare try to take away funding for the military? Once it has placed itself in a war, we are powerless. Or so they would have us believe.
Stop supporting the military, stop supporting the troops. If we have any hope of finding peace as a nation and as a world community, we must take the power out of the military’s hands and return it to the people.
For starters, if you're sick of the empty gestures on fb and all that, and i do agree they are for the most part empty, do something that helps like volunteering for the USO or something, don't bitch about it. And if our founders were terrified of a standing army why did they write it into the Constitution that Congress has the power to provide and maintain a Navy, so what you said is simply not true, can't be argued. Another point, you said America was isolationist until WW1? Once again, way wrong, we were very imperialistic before then, especially in the Caribbean, and participated in the War of 1812, Spanish-American War, the theory of isolationism didn't even come up until after WW1 when everyone thought that we couldn't handle another engagement like WW1 and should just stay out of the world's affairs. Yes, we spend a lot on the military, but if you haven't noticed it's kept America free from major attack for quite a long time, and if you think those big oceans would protect us without a navy to watch them, you truly have no common sense. I have noticed you're commenting on all this military strategy and what we should do when you obviously have no background in any military matter whatsoever, so quite frankly, shut up and keep the strategy to those who actually know the difference between the navy and their left nut, not saying you have one. And return the power to the hands of the people? This proves your ignorance in a big way, the military is controlled by civilians, the president is our commander in chief, the highest rank in the military, each branch has a secretary who outranks all personnel within the military, and members of congress are often involved in the process and all these civilians are the ones who give us our orders and approve the operations of the united states military, so watch where you're pointing the finger and once again, you have proved you know nothing of the military. The truth is I don't care if you support the military or the troops or not, there will always be sad little emo kids like you with too many piercings and too many problems, but when you talk about the military have half a brain and try to say some facts not just pointless meandering bullshit that stems from the pathetic existence of your life Mr. Faett, so once again, don't open your mouths about the troops unless you know the difference between the Navy and that cute little nose ring you have, because you don't, and you don't know some of the pain our troops experience so little scum like you can have these blogs and post their off topic and factless opinions who no one gives a rat's ass about, if you want to experience some of the pain I'm sure there are plenty of people who would be happy to drag you into a dark cold basement and tear out all those pretty little piercings one by one until you're singing god bless america at the top of your lungs, so kindly go fuck yourself, or bite a curb and allow someone to stomp you, or perhaps find the nearest building, cliff, just a high object, and jump off, the world would be a better place and it would be much appreciated. Sincerely, someone who cares about the military and actually knows a thing or two.
ReplyDeleteFor some one trying to act superior, you're awfully good at ruining it by acting like a little kid. Calling me names and threatening me. I mean, honestly. You really think it sounds American to tell people who think differently than you that they should be dragged into a basement and tortured? As if that wasn't enough, you tell me all my information is wrong and claim I was making everything up.
ReplyDeleteAmerica was never isolationist and no one wanted it to be until after WWI? You obviously have never read George Washington's farewell address, so let me quote a paragraph or so of it for you.
"It is our true policy to steer clear of permanent alliances with any portion of the foreign world; so far, I mean, as we are now at liberty to do it; for let me not be understood as capable of patronizing infidelity to existing engagements. I hold the maxim no less applicable to public than to private affairs, that honesty is always the best policy. I repeat it, therefore, let those engagements be observed in their genuine sense. But, in my opinion, it is unnecessary and would be unwise to extend them."
So that's the first thing you're wrong about. If you're really sure I'm making this up, google "George Washington Farewell Address."
The next point you're wrong about is that by being imperialistic we could not have possibly been isolationist as well. You misunderstand the two ideas though. While imperialism involves the conquering land and subjugation of peoples, isolationism is a focus on not getting involved in the affairs of other nations. By fighting the spanish and mexicans for terrorist, we were exercising our imperialism. However, isolationism is a focus on avoiding the affairs of other nations. Invading them to change the leader of that nation, allying with foreign powers, etc.
Thirdly, you say the money we spend is necessary because if protects us. We spend 6 times more money than China a year on the military, and they seem to be as secure as we are. I don't recall hearing of anyone attacking them. We spend six times more money than a totalitarian government, and we are a democracy? Not to mention that military did not prevent 9/11 and is no involved in two wars in foreign nations with no foreseeable end to the conflicts. These wars cost American lives. It would appear to me that since the military is both incapable of stopping terrorist attacks, as the intelligence agencies are the ones truly capable. And further, they are involved in two wars that continue to cost American lives. We have been in Afghanistan for 9 years. How is that any kind of success?
The founders absolutely feared a standing army. Yes, they put powers in the Constitution that gave Congress the ability to raise an army and a navy for the defense of the nation, but nowhere did it say that they should create a standing army of professional soldiers. It was a struggle to get the Constitution passed as it was in that time because so many feared giving the national government so much power. You think they wouldn't fear the army that enforces the will of a strong national government?
ReplyDeleteFinally, the American people do not control their military. We cannot give orders to soldiers, we can not demand they come back. Otherwise, they would have been long ago. President Bush didn't even get the LEGALLY required declaration of war from the Senate to invade Iraq. And to this date, there has been no declaration of war. This is all despite the fact that the Constitution, which spells out the authority that WE THE PEOPLE give the government.
And unrelated to the arguments itself, your use of an anonymous user name is pretty weak. I'm all for intelligent discussion over differing views, but that is hard to do with some one hiding their identity and using insults and threats as the major point what they're saying. I love this country, and it is my love for it that makes me want to fix the problems with it. I don't just attack everyone who challenges the status quo personally. Grow up if you want to be taken seriously.
yes yes i know about the avoiding entangling alliances and all that, that's all fine and dandy...if we actually carried it out. We became involved in the Spanish-American War because we had a foreign interest in Puerto Rico and Cuba, that part is imperialism, but also because of the oppression from the Spanish government, therefore wanting to change their leader which you specifically defined as isolationism, "Invading them to change the leader of that nation." It's essentially to say imperialism and isolationism are anything but the same, it's semantics.
ReplyDeleteOn to the big military topics, which once again you really shouldn't be commenting on because you simply don't know what's going on. China hasn't been attacked for a few reasons and as for 9/11 we'll get to that, 1: the only significant enemy anyone is currently fighting in the world, primarily us obviously, are Muslim extremists, not all Muslims, just the extremists, I can't be clear enough on that point. I don't know if you've seen China's demographics lately but they really don't have an overwhelming amount of Christians or Jews nor are they considered part of the western world as we obviously are. So they really just aren't worried about terrorists. Not to mention the extremists are a tad distracted with us in the middle east.
2: Okay, 9/11, yes we were obviously caught with our pants down but our military has a very small responsibility for detecting and investigating potential terrorist threats, this falls under the responsibility of our numerous intelligence agencies, the only thing our military is often involved in is the capture and/or elimination of said extremists. So if your argument is geared toward our lack of preparedness towards 9/11 you would be suggesting cutting the funding of our numerous intelligence agencies, not the military. Lastly on this topic, catching a terrorist organization is like trying to find one particular piece of hay in a haystack and you have no idea what that hay looks like, it's incredibly difficult and the money put towards it is necessary for the safety of our country, you can fight it and say it's unnecessary, if that's your opinion then so be it but that's all it will be for most people because there are very few who actually know the inner-workings of our military/intelligence/foreign agencies and what they do to capture terrorists, they are the unsung heroes who often end up as nameless stars on a wall or just a name on a piece of paper sent home to families and they deserve our respect.
3: The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are now or at one point would have been necessary. Saddam had to be taken care of eventually, you can argue that at least there was stability when he was in power but there was only stability through the killing of Iraqi civilians, yes some Iraqi civilians have been killed in the war, everyone will say it's war death is inevitable and what they're all trying to say is yes it sucks, war is not easy to fight, the amount of logistics and planning involved to coordinate so many forces and accounting for each and every man and piece of equipment down to the bullet, and yes, they do bullet counts, is mind boggling. There will be slip ups and unfortunately people are in the wrong place when something is going down and innocent people may end up getting killed, it sucks but whether this war was approved by congress or not these deaths would have happened. The war in Iraq obviously does have a foreseeable end since we are pulling out and re-deploying to Afghanistan. Right now al-Qaeda IS re-building themselves in afghanistan and other places around the world, unless you want an attack that's going to make 9/11 look like a pin prick or at least agree American citizen's lives have value, you should support this war, yes it will go on and will take some time, and you can say we need to pull out because YOU think it sucks and YOU'RE tired of it, but right now the vast majority of our troops over there are Marines and they are proud to be there and be making a difference there, they don't like seeing their marine brothers killed, but already we have guys coming back from their tour saying they have made a difference, you go to JMU and live or lived in northern virginia, wander over to Quantico and ask some of the guys there how they feel about it and get the perspective of someone who has been there. There will always be some who say they don't like it, but the vast majority are proud.
ReplyDeleteCongress has the power to raise a standing army, they were given that power because that's what our founding fathers wanted. Read the federalist papers (written by quite a few of our founding fathers) they explain the need for a standing, permanent army of professionally trained soldiers. The military does not enforce the will of our government on United States citizens, that is strictly prohibited, we have the FBI and the rest of the DOJ to do that, unless martial law is declared the military cannot and will not be used on citizens of the US, all the military does is project power across the world when necessary and ordered to by our civilian heads, no general or admiral has ever declared war or sent troops anywhere they weren't authorized by our civilian heads, I can guarantee you that. And you as an individual civilian can't order the military to do anything because that would be the worst run military in the world, you elect representatives to carry out your wishes and voice your opinion in government, because you didn't get your way means you are not the majority, this is a democracy, if you didn't get your way and your elected official said they would do something and they haven't, write a letter to your elected official do not bash the troops. There is a centralization of command for a very good reason, and at it's very center are a core of civilians with the commander in chief, secretary of defense, secretary of homeland security, and secretaries of the navy, army and air force, they dish out the orders and it's up to the admirals and generals on down to implement their wishes.
No Bush didn't legally get congress to approve war, but guess what, Obama didn't get congress to approve war on Afghanistan, he very well could have pulled us out of there and left it be, and don't say he inherited it from the Bush administration, all he had to do was ignore the problems that were going on there and pull out the troops and he could have, but he's seeing things from Bush's shoes now, you can't just ignore the problem and leave it be it does have to be taken care of so he's sending more and more troops and supplies over to afghanistan without approval from congress, sounds a lot like what Bush did to me but I don't hear Obama catching any heat for it.
ReplyDeleteLastly, also unrelated to the argument, don't tell me how to be taken seriously, I know how to be and am, don't take my crude and violent sarcasm as a lack of seriousness or maturity, if you want to be taken seriously choose a look that doesn't scream I did this because I want to "express" myself, it's not self expression, it's childish and immature, twenty or so years from now when your ears are looking ridiculous from those gauges you will agree with me, right now you simply lack the maturity to realize it.
*imperialism and isolationism are one in the same, it's semantics.
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ReplyDeleteI'm not entirely sure why body modification is a sign of immaturity, or even relevant to these discussions. In fact, it diminishes the legitimacy and maturity of your arguments when you decide to through in a pathetic insult at the tail end of your statement.
ReplyDeleteIf you want to sound serious, leave the insults out. It's not about someone's personal preferences and appearance, it's about the opinions.
I'll be posting a response at some point in the next day or two. The last one was poorly constructed and rushed. brb.
ReplyDeleteAsh, it's not immature, it's an opinion, and I personally have no problems with tattoos as long as they have meaning, but in my opinion piercings are too misleading and just don't belong and often skew how people perceive you, i know you're going to say you don't care what others think so I realize this is a pointless argument to have with you, but like i said in my opinion there is a point where they are excessive, in your opinion they are not, and like you said this is about opinions, and you chiming in on a minor point that chase and I really haven't touched on and isn't the focal point of our discussion doesn't prove your maturity either, this is a big boy conversation.
ReplyDeleteChase: I had already read the argument, the truth is we could go back and forth for a solid month before the keyboards break on policy issues because as much as each of us hates it theres probably the same amount of evidence supporting each side of the argument and it comes down to opinion in the end, but my overall point here and i'll leave it at this is as follows, what irked me about your original post is that it's title is stop supporting the troops, all we've talked about is policy and if the message you're trying to portray is that policy needs to change you should state that, the troops themselves have nothing to do with policy that's all elected legislation, so I personally believe regardless of how you feel about policy or our elected officials our troops should be supported because they follow orders and carry out their jobs for not terribly great pay and while being away from their families and putting their lives on the line. It's true that military funding will most likely never change only altered to support the current war at hand, but we also have to prepare for the future, China, Russia and Korea are all the threats on the horizon and if they occur they will be more "modern" style warfares and it takes time to build up so we can be prepared if/when those wars come, i personally believe it's when not if, so, that all being said, i simply believe it's all fine and dandy if you want to argue against military policy but don't argue against support for our troops.
I cannot support a decision I disagree with. I don't believe people should join the military, and I don't believe building up will solve any problems, only precipitate them by creating enemies. Unfortunately, only time will tell, but given the history of the world and the results of countries stockpiling arms and building up their armies suggests that building up a military only makes war that much more likely. In the last ten years we've made far more enemies than allies, both in the middle east and abroad. If your real concern is that down the road china and russia are going to attack us, I'd imagine working on diplomacy now is a far better solution. As for Korea, they are so economically backwards, the idea of them launching a successful assault into the continental US seems silly. Alas, oh well.
ReplyDeleteThe real problem with Russia right now are their rulers, we have real chance of getting along with them on a level as allies but it won't come until they move past the "old guard", right now Russia is controlled by a bunch of ex-KGB guys who hate us with every bone in their body, once we pass that stage though there's a chance we won't have to worry about them all that much, but we're still not far enough away from the cold war to completely put them in the back of our heads.
ReplyDeleteI love the discreet sexism of the "big boy conversation" and all your assumptions of what you think of me. But what do I have to say? I should really get back to cooking my boyfriend's dinner and leave the opinion makin' to the big college boys!
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